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Thread: J33pMan's Adventures in Welding

  1. #21
    Yeah that is a huge help thanks!, I am still using flux core as I can't afford a bottle yet, so I am guessing I should run the wire wheel to get rid of the slag between overlapping tacks? When you say "alternating corners" I envision opposite corners to keep the piece from moving too much from the heat?
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  2. #22
    Senior Member JustinWC's Avatar
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    Yeah a quick brush would probably be needed. BTW I started with fluxcore and developed this method while using it. Also just so you know I am self taught so take my advice with a grain of salt. As for how it works I probably wasn't clear enough. First tack all 4 corners, then you can work on one side at a time without having to flip the piece after each tack. You actually are not putting a lot of heat into the local area around the weld. The sum total of all the heat will be higher using this method so the ENTIRE piece will be hotter but the timing allows it to dissipate away from the weld area preventing burn through.

    In the pic below the black circles are the initial tacks on all 4 corners to hold the piece in place. Then just alternate red and green toward the middle.
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    Best regards,

    Justin

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  3. #23
    Ahhh, I see what you are saying now.
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  4. #24
    ok, new project. I am working on building a swing out tire carrier for my Jeep. I am using the fabricators kit from AtoZ Fabrication www.AtoZfabrication.com (I hope it is ok to post their link here.)

    This is how it sits today. Yup, that is the same 1/8" wall tubing from a deck railing that I made my table from.

    Lessons Learned so far.
    1. Direct more of the heat into the thicker of the two metals and let the thinner metal just kind of melt into the puddle. Thanks Justin.
    2. Seat the bearing races into the hinge tube BEFORE welding it to the carrier frame, because you wont be able to seat them after. Thanks to AtoZ for that one.

    That plate is 3/8ths, so I turned up the amps a bit and focused most of the heat into the plate while tying it to the 1/8th tube and then turned the amps back down and did another pass focusing more on the previous weld and the tube.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member JustinWC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J33PMan View Post
    ok, new project. I am working on building a swing out tire carrier for my Jeep. I am using the fabricators kit from AtoZ Fabrication www.AtoZfabrication.com (I hope it is ok to post their link here.)

    This is how it sits today. Yup, that is the same 1/8" wall tubing from a deck railing that I made my table from.

    Lessons Learned so far.
    1. Direct more of the heat into the thicker of the two metals and let the thinner metal just kind of melt into the puddle. Thanks Justin.
    2. Seat the bearing races into the hinge tube BEFORE welding it to the carrier frame, because you wont be able to seat them after. Thanks to AtoZ for that one.

    That plate is 3/8ths, so I turned up the amps a bit and focused most of the heat into the plate while tying it to the 1/8th tube and then turned the amps back down and did another pass focusing more on the previous weld and the tube.
    Hey J33pMan,
    Glad to hear the those little tips are working out well.

    Just a couple thoughts on the second pass you are talking about.
    I think it's best to set your welder to the amperage settings for the thickest piece of metal you have i.e. 3/8" and 10ga are what I think you are working with. Set your welder to weld 3/8" for your first pass. It sounds like you are trying to tie in the tube a little better since it is structural.

    For a second pass don't turn the welder back down, leave your setting the same as the first pass or you can even go a bit higher, yes higher. The second pass on a corner weld has to heat a LOT more metal than your first pass because of the thickness of your first weld fillet. A second pass will only tie in the "toes" of the first fillet to the base metal. The "toes" are where the weld fillet and base metal meet. The second pass may not adequately tie into the middle of the fillet since it is thicker.

    On a second pass, I simply leave my settings the same and perform the same technique, aiming the heat into the first fillet and overlapping the tube by 1/3 of my puddle. It really is a very good way to do it. Turning your settings back down you will get good fusion on the tube side of the weld but poor fusion on the fillet side of the weld. The reason is that your first fillet is now a thicker piece of metal than 3/8" on the plate side and thicker than 1/8" on the tube side. See if this pic helps. ( In reality your first fillet and the base pieces it is now tied into vary considerably in thickness across the profile.)

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    I think what really helped me understand this was when I started welding aluminum. The metal is sucking the heat away from the arc and and puddle very fast. Thicker metal sucks the heat away faster. Thicker metal means a cooler weld puddle and results in poor fusion. The issue is much further exaggerated with aluminum. If you still aren't sure we can discuss heat propagation properties further.

    BTW those are some good looking welds! Flux core is dirty and ugly but you are making them look great.
    Last edited by JustinWC; 07-07-2015 at 09:21 AM.
    Best regards,

    Justin

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  6. #26
    Thanks for the help Justin. I totally get what you are saying about the heat now. Pictures are good for my simple mind I see what I was thinking on how to tie them together was a bit bass ackward. You are talking about stacking the beads on top of each other and "climbing" the thinner wall vs setting the heat for the thinner wall and trying to get the top bead to "drop" and meet the filler bead. It has been better than 20 years since I really had to consider thermal dynamics and heat transfer.

    Thanks again for the help and encouragement. I guess if these crack or break, I will know to make the next set stronger.
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  7. #27
    Senior Member JustinWC's Avatar
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    You are welcome. I just wish I had known some of this myself earlier.
    I've deconstructed some of my early mig (GMAW) welds and saw they were not fused at all to the thicker base metal. Some weren't even fused well on same thickness corner joints where I used a slightly lower setting.
    It was a heartbreaking moment.

    But now I know better. Actually those types of issues are not nearly as problematic on flux core (FCAW) welds. FCAW has excellent penetration and is really pretty much the same as stick welding (SMAW) just in a semi automatic process. There is a reason structural stuff (pipelines, ships, buildings, bridges etc) are built with (stick) SMAW or FCAW. For something very cool, look up dual shield or outer shield. It is a FCAW process WITH gas, hence the name dual shield. It is flux cored wire and uses either 75/25 or 100 ar as the outer shield. They use it to build ships. Yes aircraft carriers and the like. Amazing penetration, easily produces a technically correct weld, and HUGE production i.e. 25+ lbs of weld per hour.

    As a side note the Titanic sank because the metal used to construct her was too brittle, really it was all iron I believe. Modern ships are built using dual shield FCAW because it has high production rates, excellent elastic properties and can easily produce a technical weld. The elastic properties of the steel alloy and welds prevents dynamic wave action, trough spanning, or impacts (think icebergs, floating cargo containers, other ships) from breaking the hull. Fun stuff.
    Best regards,

    Justin

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  8. #28

    Finaly finished up on the tire carrier.

    Well it's done.... for now. Until I figure out how to add a fuel can carrier.
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  9. #29
    That's a well thought out carrier. Well built too, nice work. Keep a tire on it though, that jack alone might look like an AR to the cops.
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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget View Post
    That's a well thought out carrier. Well built too, nice work. Keep a tire on it though, that jack alone might look like an AR to the cops.
    Thank you very much! Um as far as the AR goes, I live in Idaho, we encourage that kind of thing. Heck the local cops might be a bit disappointed when they find out it isn't an AR . Hmm now you got me thinking.... I need an AR or shotgun rack!
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