PDA
View Full Version :

200sx... IGBT or MOSFET?



No1up
05-02-2013, 07:30 AM
On the similar models section it states it's an MOSFET unit, and on the product description it says it's a IGBT unit? Can some one clear this up for me? I currently have my eye on it and would like as much information on it as possible :)

cmoses2
05-02-2013, 11:06 AM
according to the blurb on
TIGWELD 200SX 200AMP AC/DC TIG/STICK WELDER (http://www.longevity-inc.com/productcategory-38-tig-welders-php/tigweld-200sx)
its IGBT

No1up
05-02-2013, 11:16 AM
according to the blurb on
TIGWELD 200SX 200AMP AC/DC TIG/STICK WELDER (http://www.longevity-inc.com/productcategory-38-tig-welders-php/tigweld-200sx)
its IGBT


Right, now click the similar models, it says mosef. A: what's the diffrence, and B: which is correct?

No1up
05-02-2013, 11:42 AM
After speaking with Eric, he said it was Mosef, so now what's the difference?? Lol

Gamble
05-02-2013, 04:25 PM
I didn't know it was one or the other. It has IGBT's for sure though!

No1up
05-02-2013, 04:35 PM
I didn't know it was one or the other. It has IGBT's for sure though!

I don't know man, Eric (from Longevity) on the phone said it was MOSIF, call him ext 203. :-)

I still dont know what the fuss is about though? why is IGBT better?

WookieWelding
05-02-2013, 10:06 PM
mosfet is old technology
IGBT is new technology

IGBT being the more reliable of the two

cmoses2
05-03-2013, 10:45 AM
QUOTE=No1up;48642]I don't know man, Eric (from Longevity) on the phone said it was MOSIF, call him ext 203. :-)

"I still dont know what the fuss is about though? why is IGBT better?[/QUOTE]"

You can build a inverter out of any semiconductor process that possess the attributes you want, MOS, BJT, HBT, IGBT, are all candidates, each with plus'es and minus'es

Metal Oxide Semiconductor (MOS, and his more popular brother Complementary MOS) uses Field Effect to control the transistor's conductance, hence the name FET, and the Oxide causes the control gate is isolated from the controlled current. This is the most widely used semiconductor process on the planet by a long shot, it has made unbelievable strides, but mostly aimed at reduction of FET size, it is now at 22nM (that's nano-meters) feature sizes on 12 inch wafers. This makes the old larger feature size production lines almost free to use since they are not in vogue, and they are perfectly suited to the higher voltage, higher current requirements of "big iron". . However the designer must add the proper protection for these devices to work in the demanding duty seen in a heavy duty inverter for reliability, they are per-snickety and may end up being more expensive due to the increased protection needed.

Bipolar Junction Transistor (BJT)(and for really high frequency HBT (Hyper-abrupt)) is also a good candidate, but...the control gate (base) isnt isolated, and the fab lines are usually more expensive to operate, and they require isolation for the control structures (all the little knobs). The result is that they are expensive to apply due to their slightly higher cost, and the level shifting/ isolation headaches.

IGBT...you may have guessed it...take a High voltage MOSFET, use it to control the base of a BJT, build it all on the same semiconductor line, and viola...Isolated Gate Bipolar Junction Transistor. It has the lightning fast transition from "off" to "on" of the BJT, so power dissipation is minimized, the control gate is isolated, so you dont have to design that in, it'll soak up some of the inductive kick so you dont have as much protection headaches, so until we have a lightning fast relay that never wears out...its the bell of the ball.

Now the disclaimer: Any technology can be used, and with good design practice will yield a good efficient product, but any technology can also be used poorly, with less than optimal results.
I am somewhat surprised that the 200 uses MOSFETS, simply because most of the other units touts IGBT, and to me it would make sense to harmonize the production line around a chosen technology to drive the device volumes up, and hence the cost down.....but I dont build welding machines, I simply abuse the one I have.
CM2

No1up
05-03-2013, 08:59 PM
QUOTE=No1up;48642]I don't know man, Eric (from Longevity) on the phone said it was MOSIF, call him ext 203. :-)

"I still dont know what the fuss is about though? why is IGBT better?"

You can build a inverter out of any semiconductor process that possess the attributes you want, MOS, BJT, HBT, IGBT, are all candidates, each with plus'es and minus'es

Metal Oxide Semiconductor (MOS, and his more popular brother Complementary MOS) uses Field Effect to control the transistor's conductance, hence the name FET, and the Oxide causes the control gate is isolated from the controlled current. This is the most widely used semiconductor process on the planet by a long shot, it has made unbelievable strides, but mostly aimed at reduction of FET size, it is now at 22nM (that's nano-meters) feature sizes on 12 inch wafers. This makes the old larger feature size production lines almost free to use since they are not in vogue, and they are perfectly suited to the higher voltage, higher current requirements of "big iron". . However the designer must add the proper protection for these devices to work in the demanding duty seen in a heavy duty inverter for reliability, they are per-snickety and may end up being more expensive due to the increased protection needed.

Bipolar Junction Transistor (BJT)(and for really high frequency HBT (Hyper-abrupt)) is also a good candidate, but...the control gate (base) isnt isolated, and the fab lines are usually more expensive to operate, and they require isolation for the control structures (all the little knobs). The result is that they are expensive to apply due to their slightly higher cost, and the level shifting/ isolation headaches.

IGBT...you may have guessed it...take a High voltage MOSFET, use it to control the base of a BJT, build it all on the same semiconductor line, and viola...Isolated Gate Bipolar Junction Transistor. It has the lightning fast transition from "off" to "on" of the BJT, so power dissipation is minimized, the control gate is isolated, so you dont have to design that in, it'll soak up some of the inductive kick so you dont have as much protection headaches, so until we have a lightning fast relay that never wears out...its the bell of the ball.

Now the disclaimer: Any technology can be used, and with good design practice will yield a good efficient product, but any technology can also be used poorly, with less than optimal results.
I am somewhat surprised that the 200 uses MOSFETS, simply because most of the other units touts IGBT, and to me it would make sense to harmonize the production line around a chosen technology to drive the device volumes up, and hence the cost down.....but I dont build welding machines, I simply abuse the one I have.
CM2[/QUOTE]


That's good information! Thank you sir!

Cope
05-04-2013, 05:44 AM
"

I am somewhat surprised that the 200 uses MOSFETS, simply because most of the other units touts IGBT, and to me it would make sense to harmonize the production line around a chosen technology to drive the device volumes up, and hence the cost down.....but I dont build welding machines, I simply abuse the one I have.
CM2
The 200i and 200EX are not made in the same factory as the 200SX

That's good information! Thank you sir![/QUOTE]

tigman
01-30-2014, 12:00 PM
I purchased the 200sx yesterday and asked that exact question the salesman John assured me it is IGBT not MOSFET