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40i plasma wiring help..



brucer
06-20-2012, 02:08 PM
I have a 40i plasma, it has the cnc plug in the rear of the machine.. I'm wanting to wire the 40i plasma up to test fire it and I dont have a clue.... I've hit my extent of wiring when I wired the motors up myself :)

I'm not running a thc, so I just need plasma on and off, i'm guessing m3/m4 would be on clockwise and on ccw, and m5 would be torch off..

I'm guessing I will use the spindle output on the tb6560 board (bottom right), this output already has a relay that is built onto the board.. I dont care alot for the factory relay.. My friend give me a siemens relay that I would like to use if possible..

I've read all that I will need is 2 wires hooked up, seems too simple to me..

1st is a picture and layout of the tb6560 4axis board..
2nd picture is the pin layout for the 40i cnc plug... I hate being wiring stupid, any and all help would be great..

Gadget
06-20-2012, 03:17 PM
Looks like pin 1 and 2 are the torch trigger on the plug. As for M codes most use M3 and M5. I use M7 on and M9 off. It really doesn't matter as long as the controller understands what is assigned to each M code.

acourtjester
06-20-2012, 07:18 PM
HI Brucer

Here is what I think you are looking for.
As gadget said pins 1 & 2 are to light the torch on the plasma. You need to wires from you controller to those connections. It looks like you will use the spindle interface for the connections at the controller look for the output relay trigger signal pin. You will use the relay's contacts to make the switch for the torch on/off. In Mach you need to look in spindle setup (under configure then ports and pins) in spindle setup you will unclick disable spindle relay. Look for CW m3 and use output # one. Then go to mill option and under THC options make sure THC up down is clicked.
Then go to output signals and enable output #1 for port 1 and what pin you want to use (I used pin 14) I dont know which pin on your controller turns the relay on (output relay on pin).
Make sure you click apply before leaving each page
To test if out just run mach3 and go to the MDI (alt2) and type M3 in the input line and enter. That should trigger the relay then type M5 that should turn it off.

Have fun
Tom

brucer
06-21-2012, 06:13 PM
thanks guys.. I'll get back on the table shortly.. It wont take long to get it up and running I dont think, I'm just waiting on a linear actuator with about 6" of travel on it.. I have an offer posted we'll see what they counter offer..

brucer
07-13-2012, 09:15 PM
HI Brucer

Here is what I think you are looking for.
As gadget said pins 1 & 2 are to light the torch on the plasma. You need to wires from you controller to those connections. It looks like you will use the spindle interface for the connections at the controller look for the output relay trigger signal pin. You will use the relay's contacts to make the switch for the torch on/off. In Mach you need to look in spindle setup (under configure then ports and pins) in spindle setup you will unclick disable spindle relay. Look for CW m3 and use output # one. Then go to mill option and under THC options make sure THC up down is clicked.
Then go to output signals and enable output #1 for port 1 and what pin you want to use (I used pin 14) I dont know which pin on your controller turns the relay on (output relay on pin).
Make sure you click apply before leaving each page
To test if out just run mach3 and go to the MDI (alt2) and type M3 in the input line and enter. That should trigger the relay then type M5 that should turn it off.

Have fun
Tom


ok hooked my 40i up to my plasma tonight... were running into a problem with the normal operation of the relay compared to what the plasma cutter is needing...


might be tough for me to explain so bare with me... basically kayle (my buddy) says whats happening is the signal the plasma cutter wants is a signal to turn it on and a signal to turn it of... but using a relay when you punch in m3 it comes on (relay on), when you do m5 it turns the relay off but plasma cutter stays on, then when you hit m3 again the plasma shuts off.... he says that i could wire it directly into the front of the machine and it would work perfect as the relay would be on when torch was on, and when relay was off the plasma would be off..

kayle said with using the plug on the rear, the plasma cutter is looking for a toggled on and toggled off and a regular relay wouldnt work running from the cnc plug on the back because the relay is either on or off (not a toggled contact).. hope that made sense


also would pins 9 and 10 (ok to move) on the plug need to be used?

Gadget
07-14-2012, 06:55 AM
I connected mine to the plug on the front of the machine on my LP80 and it works fine. You should be able to connect to the torch trigger plug on the front of any machine and make it work since it is simply an open/closed connection. The OK to move shouldn't come into play since you are not using the connections on the back for CNC. At least, that's how I see it.

acourtjester
07-14-2012, 08:51 AM
HI Brucer
I think that the front torch trigger and the rear CNC plug torch trigger wires are parallel and there for not different in the way the work. You can check this by using an ohm meter and touch one to the pins in the front torch connector and pin 1 in the back. Check back 1 to both front pins one will have continuity then touch pin 2 in the back and the other front pin and you should have continuity with that pin. This means both front and back are the same connection and not different.
Another check is to put your ohm meter on the relay output from you controller. And do the m3 then m5 test again, that relay output should turn on/off with the signals as you expected it to.
If it does not (as you said it takes a second m3 to shut it off) they are using a ratcheting relay which is trigger on, trigger off, not power on not power off as normal.

If you are using the back panel plug to trigger you torch do not hook up the torch trigger cable in the front. This will have the torch trigger wires acting as an antenna just leave it disconnected. I think that is why I had a problem with my 80I.

brucer
07-14-2012, 10:58 AM
I connected mine to the plug on the front of the machine on my LP80 and it works fine. You should be able to connect to the torch trigger plug on the front of any machine and make it work since it is simply an open/closed connection. The OK to move shouldn't come into play since you are not using the connections on the back for CNC. At least, that's how I see it.

so if I'm using the cnc plug on the rear of the machine do i need pins 9 and 10 (ok to move) connected

brucer
07-14-2012, 10:59 AM
HI Brucer
I think that the front torch trigger and the rear CNC plug torch trigger wires are parallel and there for not different in the way the work. You can check this by using an ohm meter and touch one to the pins in the front torch connector and pin 1 in the back. Check back 1 to both front pins one will have continuity then touch pin 2 in the back and the other front pin and you should have continuity with that pin. This means both front and back are the same connection and not different.
Another check is to put your ohm meter on the relay output from you controller. And do the m3 then m5 test again, that relay output should turn on/off with the signals as you expected it to.
If it does not (as you said it takes a second m3 to shut it off) they are using a ratcheting relay which is trigger on, trigger off, not power on not power off as normal.

If you are using the back panel plug to trigger you torch do not hook up the torch trigger cable in the front. This will have the torch trigger wires acting as an antenna just leave it disconnected. I think that is why I had a problem with my 80I.


good idea on unplugging the torch trigger from the front of the machine if using the rear plug.

Xalky
07-14-2012, 11:06 AM
It all depends. Are you using the rav01 card from CandCNC? If you are I believe it takes the divided volts and also gives you the "arc OK" signal, which is the same as the "ok to move" signal. If you don't have the rav01 card, get it, otherwise yoou're gonna fry stuff. Been there done that! Don't even try to pull the divided voltage from that CNC connector it won't work. I tried that tooo! Epic Fail!

Xalky
07-14-2012, 11:10 AM
I thought you were using CandCNC stuff?

brucer
07-14-2012, 11:41 AM
I thought you were using CandCNC stuff?

nope been using the tb6560 from the start of my build

brucer
07-14-2012, 11:56 AM
If it does not (as you said it takes a second m3 to shut it off) they are using a ratcheting relay which is trigger on, trigger off, not power on not power off as normal.




think this is exactly whats happening.

the relay kayle wired in is a typical industrial relay, and it is working as it should with the m3 and m5 commands, but its the plasma cutter thats wanting another switch..


the way its doing is m3 fires the torch like it should (relay at controller is closed), you punch in m5 (relay opens but torch stays on, punch in m3 again torch goes off (relay is closed)... kayle said the plasma machine itself is looking for a complete switch.. basically a on/off to turn the torch on and another on/off to turn the torch off..


as i'm seeing it, the plug on the rear would not work for a simple on/off control because the relay in the machine is the wrong type for simple on/off commands which would be coming from a typical relay at the controller/driverboard..

is there a specific type of relay i could use that would work?

acourtjester
07-14-2012, 12:25 PM
What I used the a standard 5volt relay from radio shack. The 5 volts came from output #1 on the BOB and ground (mine pin 14) the standard contacts for the relay are closed when 5 volts is applied and opens when removed. I connected that relay contacts to the torch front panel connector. I acts just like the trigger switch on the torch.

brucer
07-14-2012, 12:30 PM
What I used the a standard 5volt relay from radio shack. The 5 volts came from output #1 on the BOB and ground (mine pin 14) the standard contacts for the relay are closed when 5 volts is applied and opens when removed. I connected that relay contacts to the torch front panel connector. I acts just like the trigger switch on the torch.

correct if your running from the front of the plasma...... it is not working with the cnc plug in the rear of the machine..

acourtjester
07-14-2012, 02:34 PM
Did you ohm out the pins from the torch trigger in the front to the torch trigger pins in the rear (1 & 2)??
Just for my info please..

brucer
07-14-2012, 03:52 PM
Did you ohm out the pins from the torch trigger in the front to the torch trigger pins in the rear (1 & 2)??
Just for my info please..

not yet, I made my nema23 adapter for the z axis actuator and decided to take a break...

I'll got check it after supper and post what i find..

acourtjester
07-14-2012, 05:02 PM
Time for a cool one.
I just curious if you 40I has the smae problem as my 80I did with the CNC plug on the back not having one wire connected that should have been.

have fun
Tom

brucer
07-14-2012, 05:45 PM
Time for a cool one.
I just curious if you 40I has the smae problem as my 80I did with the CNC plug on the back not having one wire connected that should have been.

have fun
Tom


i get both pins 1 and 2 on the cnc plug being wired with both pins on the front plug

acourtjester
07-14-2012, 07:19 PM
great thanks for checking that for me.
Have you made any progress with the on/off problem?

brucer
07-14-2012, 07:27 PM
great thanks for checking that for me.
Have you made any progress with the on/off problem?


no sir,
I tore an o-ring in the torch while changing consumables and its messing with the function of the plasma cutter i believe, so i went and started on the torch holder bracket..

acourtjester
07-14-2012, 08:10 PM
Stuff happens, at least you have redirected your energy to other things you need to do.
Youre a good man Gunga Din.
Keep plugging and it will be done soon.

undercut
07-14-2012, 10:23 PM
no sir, I tore an o-ring in the torch while changing consumables and its messing with the function of the plasma cutter i believe, so i went and started on the torch holder bracket.. No comments on your o-ring problem? Is that something you can buy as a consumable? Hope there isn't anything "special" about these. If not, might be able to buy a generic o-ring.

brucer
07-16-2012, 10:01 PM
they're not special, but they seem to be hard to find in my area because of the small metric size they are (think they are 1mmx16mm), waiting on longevity tech support to verify the size.. I called 3 places locally and no luck. no one stocks metric o-rings that small, I found one that will work for the time being, it was an air conditioner o-ring from an old car i use to own, it's not the correct size but it will work for the time being..

for others, make sure you lube that o-ring a little every now and then when you change consumables.. I used a little bit of olive oil as I didnt have an dielectric grease or vaseline..

brucer
07-16-2012, 10:06 PM
Stuff happens, at least you have redirected your energy to other things you need to do.
You’re a good man Gunga Din.
Keep plugging and it will be done soon.


ok, got the manual function of my plasma cutter worked out... found a o-ring to use temporarily, I also had to break my air solehoid apart and stretch the spring out a little as the solenoid was sticking...
so I put the plasma cutter back on cnc control and its still acting like it was..

I think I'm just going to wire it off the front of the machine, would probably be more practical like that anyway..

undercut
07-16-2012, 11:12 PM
... make sure you lube that o-ring a little every now and then when you change consumables.. I used a little bit of olive oil as I didnt have an dielectric grease or vaseline.. What's the o-ring made of? I believe Vaseline may compromise rubber-based o-rings over time.

acourtjester
07-17-2012, 07:56 AM
I think a better solution for lube is air tool oil as there are many O rings in air tools. You may take the broken "O" ring cut it up and put the peices in different lubes for a few day to see how it reacts. Just in case its not rubber, it could be urathane or some other material.
Bumps in the road are not slowing you down your so close now I bet you can smell the Ozone.
Have fun
Tom

undercut
07-17-2012, 11:19 AM
I think a better solution for lube is air tool oil as there are many O rings in air tools. You may take the broken "O" ring cut it up and put the peices in different lubes for a few day to see how it reacts. Just in case its not rubber, it could be urathane or some other material. Bumps in the road are not slowing you down your so close now I bet you can smell the Ozone. Have fun Tom You are truly a very smart man. Excellent suggestion on the air tool oil and the experiment. Thanks.

brucer
07-18-2012, 04:08 PM
Ok got the issue figured out with the 40i not acting right with the m3 and m5 commands working with the cnc plug on the rear of the machine... The torch is now lighting on the m3 and shutting off with m5....

Thanks Tim Robel with Longevity, He called me and suggested putting it back in manual on the front switch.. I did that and it worked like a champ, go figure..
I have no idea why, I could have sworn I had tried that, he said some machines are like that for some reason..


Let's see, wire the z axis motor, mount and wire limit switches should be all that is left now, unless i decide to order that gecko540 :)
I'm getting all giddy now, I cant wait for the weekend.

acourtjester
07-18-2012, 07:11 PM
Be cool now no happy dance and jumping up and down don't want you to hit your head of the ceiling.
But do saver the moment as you have worked hard.

undercut
07-18-2012, 07:51 PM
Ok got the issue figured out with the 40i not acting right with the m3 and m5 commands working with the cnc plug on the rear of the machine... The torch is now lighting on the m3 and shutting off with m5.... Thanks Tim Robel with Longevity, He called me and suggested putting it back in manual on the front switch.. I did that and it worked like a champ, go figure.. I have no idea why, I could have sworn I had tried that, he said some machines are like that for some reason.. Let's see, wire the z axis motor, mount and wire limit switches should be all that is left now, unless i decide to order that gecko540 :) I'm getting all giddy now, I cant wait for the weekend. Hey, this is great news! Can't wait to see the finished product in action. Good luck this weekend! :D

urbnsr
01-13-2013, 06:58 PM
so if I'm using the cnc plug on the rear of the machine do i need pins 9 and 10 (ok to move) connected

Did you ever hook up pins 9 and 10? I'm hoping this can be used as an "ARC OK" from the cutter. Also curious where you got the wiring diagram - I didn't find it in my downloaded manual.

TIA
Paul

brucer
01-13-2013, 09:17 PM
Did you ever hook up pins 9 and 10? I'm hoping this can be used as an "ARC OK" from the cutter. Also curious where you got the wiring diagram - I didn't find it in my downloaded manual.

TIA
Paul

no, I didnt ever wire pins 9 and 10, there is no need to wire pins 9 and 10 if your not running a thc (I am not running a thc).. I got the pinout somewhere on this forum, let me dig around and see if I can find it.

found the plug configuration, link to forum thread http://www.longevity-inc.com/forum/cnc-machines-submerged-arc-automated-systems-other-cutting-methods/2932-cnc-plug-configuration.html
6660

urbnsr
01-13-2013, 09:33 PM
no, I didnt ever wire pins 9 and 10, there is no need to wire pins 9 and 10 if your not running a thc (I am not running a thc).. I got the pinout somewhere on this forum, let me dig around and see if I can find it.

found the plug configuration, link to forum thread http://www.longevity-inc.com/forum/cnc-machines-submerged-arc-automated-systems-other-cutting-methods/2932-cnc-plug-configuration.html
6660

Thanks Brucer,

When I press the switch on the torch, it takes a little time (1s?) to get a pilot arc. I assume the same if using the CNC jack on the back. Shouldn't I wait for that arc prior to pierce? I was hoping I could use pin 9 and 10 as the READY signal. Don't take your time to dig for the pinout - I just wondered if that would be something for the manual and thought maybe I had an old copy.

BTW, any hints on opening the CNC plug for wiring?

Thanks.
Paul

urbnsr
01-13-2013, 09:35 PM
Must have slipped the diagram in while I was replying. Thank you!

PK

brucer
01-13-2013, 09:43 PM
Thanks Brucer,

When I press the switch on the torch, it takes a little time (1s?) to get a pilot arc. I assume the same if using the CNC jack on the back. Shouldn't I wait for that arc prior to pierce?

BTW, any hints on opening the CNC plug for wiring?

Thanks.
Paul

if I remember correct the plug screws apart towards the end of the plug... I have my post flow turned all the way down on the machine... My pierce delay is set in sheetcams post processor.

the plug pinout is in the online manual about half way down http://www.longevity-inc.com/images/manuals/P_8678_longevityforcecut40iand50iplasmacuttermanua lrev09062010.pdf
the manual I received with my 40i didnt have the plug pin out either..

urbnsr
01-13-2013, 09:44 PM
BTW, any hints on opening the CNC plug for wiring?

Just figured out the plug.
PK

brucer
01-13-2013, 09:55 PM
If I remember correctly think my pierce delay is set at like .5 seconds..

urbnsr
01-14-2013, 12:04 PM
OK - Thanks for all your help.

Paul

brucer
01-15-2013, 12:05 AM
no problem... if there is anything else, just ask, I'll help best I can..

sounds like your getting close to lighting something up..

urbnsr
01-15-2013, 04:31 AM
Yeah - Good idea or not, but I'm adding plasma cutting to my CNC router. At least temporarily. If it works out, I can use this setup to cut out parts to build a bigger plasma-only table.

acourtjester
01-15-2013, 09:28 AM
Like Tim Allen said ar ar ar bigger is better

urbnsr
01-15-2013, 12:16 PM
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oooooo...