PDA
View Full Version :

Trying for a decent bead!!!!



Dustendee
03-17-2010, 04:15 PM
OKay OKAy Im new to welding and I only have a HF 80 amp Inverter stick welder, I think its great for the beginer on a dime the reason for this post is because Im having trouble with a consistant bead!? headbanger as a matter of fact most of my beads look like crap, im cleaning the work surface(1/4 in mild steal tacked in a T-joint) im using 6013 5/64-3/32-1/8 rod also from HF it has a good burn to it I just cant get it to bead the way I want to!? if anyone has some good technics that I can apply or point out somthing im doing worng please let me know. Or is it just the case of a noob that needs to practice some more.

Gadget
03-17-2010, 04:27 PM
5/16th rod?? I hope that was a typo and you meant 3/16". Even so with 80 amps at full bore you should be running 3/32 or at most 1/8" rod in my opinion.

Dustendee
03-17-2010, 04:36 PM
Yeah I've been using 1/8 rod as well I really like that way that burns but im still having the problem....Splochy, and uneven beads, thicker in some part thin in others should I be using a weaving pattern? Ugh I need help (yes it was a typo its fixed)

Gadget
03-17-2010, 05:40 PM
Can you post some photos of your beads?

Dustendee
03-17-2010, 06:20 PM
Sure, I don't know how to do that though

Gadget
03-17-2010, 07:12 PM
Sure, I don't know how to do that though

At the bottom of the post window there is a Manage Attachments button. Click on this then click on browse to find your photos. Once they are selected you must click the upload button to upload the photo to the post. Photo size is best at 640X480. You can click on preview to insure the photos have uploaded successfully. You have a limit of 5 photos per post. If you have more than that you can create another post immediately after the first and add 5 more photos.
Dan

Dustendee
03-17-2010, 07:28 PM
okay so here are these nasty beads, these are with 1/8 6013 quick strikes from HF cursingicon

barracuda
03-17-2010, 07:30 PM
Dustendee is your t-joint laying flat & are you welding vertical or horizontal also are you pushing or pulling your stick

Dustendee
03-17-2010, 07:38 PM
Well in these photos I welded on a flat piece of metal not a t-joint (i know i said in first post it was a t-joint) and i like to weld at a 90 degree or a 45 degree angle and most of the time I'm pulling.

Gadget
03-17-2010, 07:51 PM
The top few look like they are a bit cold. Not sure why the others are splotchy. Did you start and stop over the splotches or was that weld continuous.

Dustendee
03-17-2010, 08:02 PM
no the weld wasn't continuous I did start and stop and im not sure what you mean by cold?

Gadget
03-17-2010, 08:16 PM
The bead seems to be laying on the surface with little penetration. A smaller rod will help that somewhat but more heat will get better penetration and pooling of the filler.

Gadget
03-17-2010, 08:17 PM
Try the same heat and rod on thinner material and see if that looks better.

Dustendee
03-17-2010, 08:19 PM
ok ill try that thanks for the advise i will post pics in the future if any progress

barracuda
03-17-2010, 08:25 PM
It looks like you might be pushing back a little bit causing the narrow & wide bead

Gadget
03-17-2010, 08:53 PM
You said you were holding the electrode at a 45 degree angle. That could be part of the problem. Here is a blip from another welding site on electrode angle.

"Angle of travel: Stick welding in the flat, horizontal and overhead position uses a "drag" or "backhand" welding technique. Hold the rod perpendicular to the joint and tilt the top of the electrode in the direction of travel approximately 5 to 15 degrees. For welding vertical up, use a "push" or "forehand" technique and tilt the top of the rod 15 degrees away from the direction of travel.'

barracuda
03-17-2010, 09:03 PM
I'm notsure if my last replie went through or not , not realgood with this computor stuff. Also would recomend a backward (c) motion when welding I found it to be best to at bottom of (c) & motion up that way when you do weld a T-joint or a lap weld you start your bead on the lower or flat piece of material first. I'm a bit rusty with stick welding mostly use mig, but technic is basic no matter if you are gas , arc,mig or tig. I hope I disscribed that right.

Dustendee
03-17-2010, 09:07 PM
so at a 90 degree angle slightly angle the electrode 5 to 15 degrees and pull towards my body or the way of the weld

thanks for the posts all of these are very helpful

barracuda
03-17-2010, 09:09 PM
I'm not if my last replie went through or not , not real with this computor stuff. Also would recomend a backward (c) motion when welding I found it to be best to at bottom of (c) & motion up that way when you do weld a T-joint or a lap weld you start your bead on the lower or flat piece of material first. I'm a bit rusty with stick welding mostly use mig, but technic is basic no matter if you are gas , arc,mig or tig. I hope I disscribed that right.

Dustendee
03-17-2010, 09:14 PM
Yes Barracuda I got your reply I haven't tried a "C" motion I will definitely give that a shot and post some pics for you guys to see how I'm doing

Freddytk421
03-17-2010, 09:18 PM
Try welding two pieces together with a small gap. go slower and clamp the piece where the part your welding is off the table because it will suck some of the heat out. Those welds are not too bad for just starting out but its easier to make a nicer bead if there is a gap for it to go in. don't even use the 1/8 rod with that machine. 3/32 is the max. try going slower than you think you should and speed up on the next one if it was too slow.

barracuda
03-17-2010, 09:20 PM
Dustendee you also want to weld from your thicker material to your thinner material when welding different thicknesses of material. hope I have been more help than hurt.

barracuda
03-17-2010, 09:29 PM
I'm not if my last replie went through or not , not real with this computor stuff. Also would recomend a backward (c) motion when welding I found it to be best to at bottom of (c) & motion up that way when you do weld a T-joint or a lap weld you start your bead on the lower or flat piece of material first. I'm a bit rusty with stick welding mostly use mig, but technic is basic no matter if you are gas , arc,mig or tig. I hope I disscribed that right.

Dustendee
03-17-2010, 09:57 PM
Freddy, barracuda, what should I look for in the molten metal? in other words when do i know when to go forward........when it puddles a little? and in what motion is best?

Freddytk421
03-17-2010, 10:20 PM
Just drag it with no weaving. weaving is if you want to keep something from getting too hot and you want all the heat you can get with that machine. just go slow and straight. thats what I do on that model on 1/4 inch. Its hard to tell with that one because the slag builds up and you cant see the puddle, "use the force luke". Just try going extra slow as practice.

Dustendee
03-17-2010, 10:31 PM
HA! Thanks Jedi master I will practice, practice, practice until i get my LC520D and practice more and with that little box i will go slow.

Thanks!!

arandall
03-18-2010, 12:39 PM
I'm no expert either, but the top pictures do look like you need more heat. - and maybe slow down a bit.

Cheers,
Art R.

Dustendee
03-18-2010, 12:58 PM
Yeah, it probably needs more heat this little HF 80 inverter welder is still an awesome buy in my opinion its just so small and compact and to a more experianceed welder could probably form a better bead with that thing i just need to slow down like you said and practice. Thanks for your advice!

tking
03-18-2010, 06:07 PM
My comment after seeing the pictures is that you need more heat - just like others have said. Higher setting if possible, or drop down in rod size. Also, make sure you have a bare metal surface. One of the HF $9.99 angle grinders with some cutting and grinding wheels is an absolute must. I have 7 different angle grinders and 2 of the cheepies from HF and haven't killed one yet. I still am tempted to buy another one every time I see them.

Hamstn
03-18-2010, 06:31 PM
Yep more heat. The third picture has a good weld for the last bit of the bead. The heat had time to build up in the metal.

I would just practice on a flat piece before moving to a joint weld. Just lay bead after bead close together and try to cover the whole piece with weld. Build a pad so to speak. Just keep running beads and you will get the hang of it. Turn the amperage up or try a smaller diameter rod.

As far as trying to do any motion at first is daunting. Hard to explain but if your angle is correct you can sort of just let the rod burn down and it will move forward, leave a good bead with out moving side to side or forward and backwards. Then you can add a "C" or figure 8 motion to build up a wide gap, pad ect.

Keep up the good work

barracuda
03-18-2010, 08:54 PM
Dustendee these guys are right about more heat if my memory serves me right my high school welding Instructor said a good bead with the right heat would sound like a egg frying, so also listen to your arc & adjust your heat til you hear that sizzle.

Dustendee
03-18-2010, 09:42 PM
Hmmmmmmm thats a great way to put it! Im gunna start listing for that sizzling sound thanks barracuda!cheficon

Freddytk421
03-18-2010, 10:06 PM
practice on thinner metal until you get the big machine so you can know what it's like using the proper amps for the proper thickness. And don't buy the metal from homedepot. That stuff there is crazy expensive. use some from a scrap yard or some old junk for practice.

Dustendee
03-18-2010, 10:24 PM
Yeah I got a break on a bunch of scrap from some old woman that was moving out and her ex husband was a welder even a 5/8 2.5' X 4' plate that I want to make a table out of. Are there links I can go to to find out how many amps to use for thickness of metal?

arandall
03-19-2010, 11:40 PM
[quote=Hamstn;
Hard to explain but if your angle is correct you can sort of just let the rod burn down and it will move forward, leave a good bead with out moving side to side or forward and backwards.

I agree. Experts might disagree, but I've found with stick, if the material is clean, you have the right rod, and correct heat, after you have struck the arc, you can pretty much relax your hand and arm, and let the rod feed itself - assuming that both metals are the same thickness.

Cheers,
Art R.

Dustendee
03-19-2010, 11:49 PM
I have recently tried this very method and I think your right, to much movement makes a "snake" and not enough heat can cause it to be to thin or to thick..................thanks for the advise Art!

KHK
03-20-2010, 02:58 AM
Maybe this is to basic, the heat and metal will go in the direction that the rod is pointing.

Gadget
03-20-2010, 06:36 AM
. Are there links I can go to to find out how many amps to use for thickness of metal?

Although it doesn't directly answer your questions his should Help.

strube1369
03-27-2010, 07:44 PM
Thanks Gadget, this chart will be handy for alot of us!

stevehayes758771
03-27-2010, 09:22 PM
ark welding is sort of my thing the 6013 is a good filler rod with deep penetration but never makes pretty welds try the 7018 1/8 lead the weld and use both hands one supporting the other so you get an even smooth motion. and are you ac or dc welding

Dustendee
03-27-2010, 10:09 PM
well since then I've been using E6011 3/32 rods and have had better luck with the whole look aspect but until i get my LC520D I dont think I can use 1/8 rods because I only have a HF 80 amp inverter welder........oh and I'm DC welding, Thanks for your help Steve

tomsign
03-28-2010, 05:45 AM
Would have to agree with Gadget.
maybe this will help
As a good starting point, arc length should not exceed the diameter of the metal portion (core) of the electrode. Holding the electrode too closely decreases welding voltage. This creates an erratic arc that may extinguish itself or cause the rod to freeze, as well as produces a weld bead with a high crown. Excessively long arcs (too much voltage) produce spatter, low deposition rates, undercuts and maybe porosity

bhardy501
04-06-2010, 11:55 AM
I am not a fan of AC stick welding. You get better results from DC Reverse Polarity also known as DC+ or DCRP. Now your rod coice. If you have dirty metal or need deep penetration use the 6010 (my choice), 6011 or 6013. These are not drag rods and should be used with a slight whip motion. Establish your weld pool (the molten part) advance the rod out of the pool about 2 rod widths, ex. 1/8 rod should whip out about 1/4", then back into the pool by 2/3rds of the pool. Repeat this action stacking the weld as you advance each whip stroke. Your whip out and back is done quickly as to not let the weld pool harden. If it does harden just stop on the back stroke for a sec. to reestablish the pool. The whip action does to things it preheats the metal in front of the weld for better penetration and it cleans the metal. These rods should be used as a root pass, filler and cap should be done with a 7018. now when you switch over to a 7018 you dont use the whip action with it. You use a drag technique. The biggest thing with the drag technique is to watch your weld pool and make sure as you advance the weld the pool stays uniform. The back side stays nice and round and the width of the pool stays the same. If the back side of the pool is elongating out then you are moving to fast, slow down a little. As far as rod angle I keep my rod straight in when using the 60xx rods and use a slight trailing angle, rod tip pointed back toward the weld,when using the 7018s. Either rod pool control is probably one of the most important things to watch. Your pool will tell you exactly what you are doing.

Freddytk421
04-06-2010, 12:51 PM
His machine is an inverter so Its DC. you can drag 6011 and 6013. The problem is he should be using smaller rods.

Dustendee
04-06-2010, 01:14 PM
His machine is an inverter so Its DC. you can drag 6011 and 6013. The problem is he should be using smaller rods.


Thanks For the advise guys I guess what I need to know is lets say Im making a tee joint weld do I go in a zig zag motion from top to bottom in a push motion or should it just be draging in a push motion? Freddy I have seen your welds on youtube and they look like Fillet welds, thats kind of what im trying for, somthing neat.

Oh and I did switch to smaller rods Freddy................man they burn quick, Thanks man

Thanks Brother bhardy thats is some good info!!!!

bhardy501
04-06-2010, 01:29 PM
As far as dragging the 60xx rods, I was posting the way I was taught in welding school. I am sure there is other ways to do things. As I stated above the reason for needing the whip action is to preheat the metal in front of the weld giving better penetration and to help clean the metal in front of you. If you have a gap as in butt welding plate and you use the drag technique you are either not gonna get enough pen. to completely fill the gap and landing, flat area ground on each side of the gap. Or its gonna push excess weld out the back side and make a big gorrilla dong hanging off the back side especially in verticle position. Sorry for the description but thats what my instructor called the glob hanging off the back side.

Freddytk421
04-06-2010, 03:59 PM
Special delivery, hot off the presses. Here is the same machine you are asking about.

9uzSRDUCtzI

Freddytk421
04-06-2010, 04:14 PM
you are right in what you say but he's trying to get more out of his little welder than it's rated for.

Dustendee
04-06-2010, 05:32 PM
Thats what im talking about!!! Once again another great video, I see now (Im a visual learner) so thank you Brother bhardy and Freddy and everyone else for all of the great advise again im glad I have all of you to pick your brains!

THANKS!!!!!! cheersicon

Freddytk421
04-06-2010, 06:28 PM
No problem. Just remember it's not really 80amps. Thats only for a split second when the arc strikes. It goes down to 75 while welding. This was not at full power but a smidge (thats a technical term) under full blast. You will be really good when you get your 520 after learning on this thing.

bhardy501
04-06-2010, 07:20 PM
Another thing you need to remember with small machines is the duty cycle. thats the lenght of time you can safely weld with the machine out of a 10 min period. You can find out the duty cycle in the paperwork that come with your machine or maybe even on the machine itself. Some of the smaller inexpensive machines have a very short duty cycle at full power. If your machine is rated 20% at full power then you can weld continuous for 2 min out of 10 with out risk of burning up the machine.

SICFabrications
08-19-2010, 06:24 PM
ark welding is sort of my thing the 6013 is a good filler rod with deep penetration but never makes pretty welds try the 7018 1/8 lead the weld and use both hands one supporting the other so you get an even smooth motion. and are you ac or dc welding

not true... once you learn the 6013 rods, they can make the most textbook pretty welds. with enough practice, you can make a 6013 weld look as if it were tigged

---------- Post added at 07:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:19 PM ----------



---------- Post added at 07:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:22 PM ----------


I am not a fan of AC stick welding. You get better results from DC Reverse Polarity also known as DC+ or DCRP. Now your rod coice. If you have dirty metal or need deep penetration use the 6010 (my choice), 6011 or 6013. These are not drag rods and should be used with a slight whip motion. Establish your weld pool (the molten part) advance the rod out of the pool about 2 rod widths, ex. 1/8 rod should whip out about 1/4", then back into the pool by 2/3rds of the pool. Repeat this action stacking the weld as you advance each whip stroke. Your whip out and back is done quickly as to not let the weld pool harden. If it does harden just stop on the back stroke for a sec. to reestablish the pool. The whip action does to things it preheats the metal in front of the weld for better penetration and it cleans the metal. These rods should be used as a root pass, filler and cap should be done with a 7018. now when you switch over to a 7018 you dont use the whip action with it. You use a drag technique. The biggest thing with the drag technique is to watch your weld pool and make sure as you advance the weld the pool stays uniform. The back side stays nice and round and the width of the pool stays the same. If the back side of the pool is elongating out then you are moving to fast, slow down a little. As far as rod angle I keep my rod straight in when using the 60xx rods and use a slight trailing angle, rod tip pointed back toward the weld,when using the 7018s. Either rod pool control is probably one of the most important things to watch. Your pool will tell you exactly what you are doing.

very sound advice! matter of fact, this was gonna be my next topic for discussion