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Hydraulic Press



Hamstn
01-13-2010, 05:32 PM
Well I finally got started today. Been thinking of how I was going to do it for some time and wanted to get hydraulics set up first but that is not going to happen so I went ahead and scoured the scrap pile and found enough to start the frame. Many years ago I a guy that I know stopped by and said he had some metal he needed to get rid of because he was moving. He was working on a multi level car garage at the air port. So I ended up with a bunch of "I" beams.

The feet and uprights are 4 x 6 x 1/8" beams and I made the top out of a short section of 7 x 16 x 1/4". I will be cutting up another one of the heavy beams to make the table as I don't have enough channel.

Gadget
01-13-2010, 05:53 PM
That's going to be a monster.

KHK
01-13-2010, 07:22 PM
Looks like it is starting to take shape. This will be a very large press.

weldingtwopotatoes
01-13-2010, 07:27 PM
That's heavy duty, it will interesting to see this thing come together.

Uncle Ed
01-13-2010, 08:01 PM
I, too, find opening Brazil nuts to be quite irritating but this is going bit far...

bradler451
01-14-2010, 10:18 AM
just curious what is this use exactly for i know its a press but thats pretty big

Uncle Ed
01-14-2010, 11:05 AM
Opening child-proof medicine bottles...

arandall
01-14-2010, 11:23 AM
She's a monster!!!

Cheers,
Art R.

Hamstn
01-14-2010, 11:57 AM
just curious what is this use exactly for i know its a press but thats pretty big

Really not for anything specific. This winter we had a clutch pack to rebuild and had to take to shop. The clutch discs were under spring presser and needed to have a press to relieve tension to get apart. But a press like this can be used for many other things like removing bearings, bending metal, straightening things, ect. Limited to the jigs you build for it.

Yes it is larger then I hope I ever need but my thinking is better then ending up to small. Had the material so why not! I wanted it 48" wide in center but settled at 38". I wanted to be able to bend a full sheet of sheet metal but that is very rare and for those few cases I can run it into town to have done. Actually last time I needed sheets bent they were 6'

torqueman
01-14-2010, 05:32 PM
Very nice. I will be watching this thread as this is one of those many things on our list.

frijoli
01-14-2010, 07:20 PM
Good looking start. Hope the hydraulics come together for you!

BearNPum
01-15-2010, 01:16 PM
That is indeed the Tim Taylor press!

Bikespot
01-16-2010, 08:53 AM
Are you using that jack for it? Or what are you going to use.

Looks solid frame tho.

Hamstn
01-16-2010, 11:54 AM
The plan is to use two 4 x 8 cylinders powered by an electric hi/lo two stage pump.

Bikespot
01-16-2010, 01:51 PM
The plan is to use two 4 x 8 cylinders powered by an electric hi/lo two stage pump.

oh I usually only see ever one used. How much power do they put out?

Uncle Ed
01-16-2010, 04:11 PM
4 inch bore X 8 inch stroke? What's that - about 25,000 lbs at 2000 psi each?

Holy Snotballs! The can crusher from hell.

Hamstn
01-16-2010, 04:23 PM
Yes on the bore and stroke.


Area of piston x PSI = pounds of force.

Area = 3.14 x radius x radius (radius is half the bore diameter)

so a 4" cylinder has a radius of 2. 3.14 x 2 x 2 = 12.56sq" area

Most pumps are capable of 1500psi. 1500psi x 12.56sq" = 18,840 pounds of force, or 9+ tons.

Notice the relationship between pound per square inch, and the area of square inches?? 1 PSI x 1 square inch = 1 pound of force

Clay

So 12.56sq" x 2 (2 cylinders) x 3000psi (my pump's max) = 38ton. I was shooting for 40-50 ton but this will work and if I ever need more it will be easy to add another cylinder or go to two 5" bore

I have some really tough child proof bottles here

frijoli
01-16-2010, 06:42 PM
oh I usually only see ever one used. How much power do they put out?

It depends on the chosen pump/motor combination is used. They can be anywhere from .25HP to 500HP with single drive motor. Typically they are seen in presses, and log splitters between 2 and 50 horsepower.

Tonnage depends on the cylinder you pick and the pressure available in the pump motor combo.

Clay

Hamstn
01-18-2010, 06:10 PM
Well to keep Uncle Ed motivated I though I's post my progress on the press. I have almost all the welding done and it is finally starting to look like something. I goofed to day and mounted the table before I clamped them together and drilled a pilot hole. Instead of setting it on the adjustment pins I wanted to to put two on each side through it. Sort of add more stability and make it tight, and maybe less change it would want to spread outwards. So now that I can not get straight even holes I will have to use 4 bolts or just go ahead and let it rest on some pins.

Hamstn
01-19-2010, 05:31 PM
Went to the recycle yard today and found some cylinders off a grader. The manager said he thinks they came off the back of the grader for the ripper shanks. These look very heavy duty, but don't see any rating. There were some smaller but longer throw ones in the same pile that said 4000 psi.

Found a pump and motor but motor was 3 phase and I had no tools. I might try to get back and see if he will at least let me get the adapter and love-joy connector. Also see if the pump has any numbers on it. It was hooked to two 2" bore cylinders with probably 10-12 inch stroke.

While I was there I picked up a few odd and ends to add to the small pile. Mostly some solid round of different sizes and what I think is well stem.

frijoli
01-19-2010, 06:00 PM
you can purchase an AC inverter for the 3 phase, but these cost money, especially in the higher HP. I love them though. If you have 220 single phase, you can buy these cheap up to 2HP. Over 2 HP they get expensive quickly.
GS1-22P0 Products (http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/GS1_%28120_-z-_230_VAC_V-z-Hz_Control%29/GS1_Drive_Units_%28120_-z-_230_VAC%29/GS1-22P0)

The cool thing is, they are VARIABLE speed and almost full torque down to 40% of the rated speed. Great for milling machines drive, lathes and drill presses. The small ones are 110 volts AC in 220 THREE PHASE out!

What size are your cylinders?

Clay

Hamstn
01-19-2010, 06:37 PM
Yes I have seen and looked at some of the converters. They really are not that much or as much as I thought for smaller HP. This motor I saw I think was 2hp, it turned over smoothly, but the end of the wires looked burned so not sure if it even works. Pump will probably work. It had some motor control on top of it. A switch to move a valve inside the pump to switch the flow to the cylinders?

The cylinders appear to be 4" bore but I am afraid the stroke is only 6". Hope they are 8. I couldn't get them to move in or out. Will test them tomorrow.

frijoli
01-19-2010, 06:59 PM
Yes I have seen and looked at some of the converters. They really are not that much or as much as I thought for smaller HP. This motor I saw I think was 2hp, it turned over smoothly, but the end of the wires looked burned so not sure if it even works. Pump will probably work. It had some motor control on top of it. A switch to move a valve inside the pump to switch the flow to the cylinders?

The cylinders appear to be 4" bore but I am afraid the stroke is only 6". Hope they are 8. I couldn't get them to move in or out. Will test them tomorrow.

It could be many thing depending on what it was used for. Take some pictures of the Pump, maybe I can help decipher it. Especially if you can find a tag with model numbers.

Clay

Gadget
01-19-2010, 08:21 PM
There is also an easy way to convert from three phase to single phase using capacitors out of air conditioners. I have done this for motors up to three HP with good success. The only gotcha is you need a starting capacitor to get things moving. Once moving it can drop out.
Dan

frijoli
01-20-2010, 04:16 AM
There is also an easy way to convert from three phase to single phase using capacitors out of air conditioners. I have done this for motors up to three HP with good success. The only gotcha is you need a starting capacitor to get things moving. Once moving it can drop out.
Dan

Anther way to do this is to start a bigger motor using the capacitor method on the same line as you other 3 phase motors. Then you can start all the rest like they were 3 phase. As long as the idler motor is a higher HP than all the rest combined. You should read about this too.

One advantage to true phase converters/inverters, is being able to reverse the motor before a full stop.

Clay

Hamstn
01-21-2010, 04:46 PM
Got the cylinders mounted and in doing so I warped one end of the mount, so I need to address that as soon as I get some reducers so I can use air to power both cylinders at the same time. I did do a few test runs by using compressed air and below are the results.

torqueman
01-21-2010, 05:08 PM
Now that is a can crusher. Looks great. I want one.

frijoli
01-21-2010, 05:46 PM
I see a potential problem. If you bind one of those cylinders, or even press slightly unevenly, the flow will switch to the other, creating an even bigger bind, and something unintentional will bend.

If you run into this problem you will need a flow divider. I personally wouldn't go any further without one. They make valve type, typically cartridge style, and gear type flow dividers.

If you want to test it, I would load the cylinders with very low pressure and and intentionally bind them, or press something off center, and you'll see what I mean.
Let me know how it works out, and I'll help as I can with the sizing.

Clay

Hamstn
01-21-2010, 06:30 PM
With just air I can see the problem already. I am only applying air to one cylinder. I think it would not be so bad until the bottom piece warped when I cut and welded on it. Now the channel iron one the side to keep it even are out of wack. I was planning on using the side slides to help keep it even if I got off to one side. If needed I was going to add some adjustable rollers.

Not sure how flow divider works to keep the cylinders even or at the same pressure?

frijoli
01-21-2010, 06:52 PM
With just air I can see the problem already. I am only applying air to one cylinder. I think it would not be so bad until the bottom piece warped when I cut and welded on it. Now the channel iron one the side to keep it even are out of wack. I was planning on using the side slides to help keep it even if I got off to one side. If needed I was going to add some adjustable rollers.

Not sure how flow divider works to keep the cylinders even or at the same pressure?
Trying to keep it aligned with bearings or guides under pressure will not work, This I can assure you.

A flow divider, actually a flow divider/combiner in this case, literally divides the flow in half per cylinder. If one cylinder slows down due to a heavier load, so does the other. They work to keep multiple devices synchronized. Gear dividers are better in my opinion, but bulkier too.

Clay

bhardy501
01-21-2010, 08:22 PM
You might want to check out this site https://www.surpluscenter.com/home.asp (https://www.surpluscenter.com/home.asp) i have bought motors and several other things from them. they have a lot of hydraulic stuff, controls, hoses, pumps a little of everything.